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storytimewithjoeI realize that I might summon the wrath of the sensitive, but I really don’t mean to. Rather, I am hoping to just give some food for thought.
I’m sure you must all be familiar with the whole Treyvon Martin killing. Yes, I think the whole thing is a horrible event, and my heart goes out to the family. I wasn’t there. I don’t know specifically what happened. Like the rest of you, I can only assess things second-hand (or even further removed), based upon the news and the newspaper. But one thing that I have seen over and over and over is angry citizens wearing hoodies denouncing profiling. “A hoodie does not make a hoodlum” they yell. And I understand the ugly point that they are trying to make. Ethnic profiling is an ugly thing. But there’s a flip-side of the coin – stereotypes are not simply made up out of thin air. Take the other night, for instance. As I watched the news detailing the death of Treyvon Martin, the camera panned to a bunch of protesters wearing hoodies denouncing the idea of racial profiling. Yet, the very next newsclip covered a robbery/homicide of a shop owner somewhere in the LA area. Showing shop surveillance footage, the newscasters related how robbers held up the store at gunpoint, stealing jewelry, and shooting the shop-owner. They asked the public’s help in identifying the perpetrators. And who showed up in the video? A couple of black guys wearing hoodies.
Now, please don’t get me wrong. No, I’m not saying that anybody who is a member of a particular race is more or less likely to commit a crime. No, I’m not saying that anybody wearing a hoodie is more likely to be a thug. So what AM I saying? There is a noticeable pattern here. Stereotypes, whether they be good or bad, don’t just come out of thin air. They come through repetition. And we can’t whitewash that fact (no pun intended). It just is what it is. And only when we embrace it can we really – REALLY – work to fix the actual problem.
My heart does go out to the Martin family, and for all the families who lose a loved one through a senseless crime. And I cannot say that I know enough about the events that led to his shooting. But I will admit, if I am walking around at night, and I see a guy in a hoodie coming near me, you’d best believe I’m going to feel a bit defensive.
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no subject
Date: 2012-03-29 08:26 pm (UTC)From the "
Date: 2012-03-29 08:49 pm (UTC)You say you want to fix the "actual problem" but you are not clear on what that is? Misguided people like you that wrap your thinly-veiled racism in "I don't mean to offends" and "Don't get me wrongs", are, it seems to me, the problem.
You, as a gay man, have obviously not learned the lessons of history. Worse than that, your thoughts on stereotypes not being made out of thin air seems to justify their existence. And if that wasn't enough, you go out of your way to cite the example of BLACK men in hoodies.
You can hold whatever opinions you like about clothes and race and stereotypes, but don't dare pretend that you are not just as racist as everyone else...oh, excuse me, I mean "a bit defensive".
Re: From the "
Date: 2012-03-30 12:27 am (UTC)If you are going to make such statements, I'm going to have to ask that you at least identify yourself.
Re: From the "
Date: 2012-03-30 03:46 am (UTC)Re: From the "
Date: 2012-03-30 04:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-29 09:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-29 11:58 pm (UTC)For example, I am a Jew. Although anti-semitism has faded somewhat in the U.S., there was a time within my parents' generation when cartoons of big-nosed Jewish businessmen hunched over sacks of money were common fare and widely accepted. Even today, there are conspiracy theories about how Jews own the majority of property in the U.S. or how Jews control Hollywood. You could say, well, it's true--Jews do tend to seem to value accumulating money, or at least they seem to be good at it. So yes, the stereotype has some basis in observed reality.
However, what members of dominant culture fail to see is the way that historical power structures are complicit in this particular construction of Jewishness. Any good student of the Middle Ages, for example, knows that for over a millennium, Jews were officially reviled by Western culture's church controlled society-state. Banned from owning property (except in a few brief golden eras) Jews, with their cultural emphasis on hard work and the applying oneself in the here-and-now (rather than for the hereafter) gravitated toward the few professions allowed them, and in most cases, excelled to the limit of what was allowed in their respective cultures. One of the foremost of these was a profession from which Christians were banned (moneylending) since charging ANY interest at all was deemed userous by the church. The Jews in New Testament times were a proud, military nation, but after centuries of being marginalized during the disapora, they focused on what few avenues were left to make a living, and so yes, now we have the stereotype of the money-greedy, effeminate Jew (funny how when we want to portray a culture as week, we emphasize the feminine...but, I digress).
I am also gay. (You know I had to go here ;). We live in a culture that has largely (until very recently) prohibited gay marriage. So whose fault is it that gay people are saddled with the stereotype of lacking in commitment, swinging, sex-addicted (or, for lesbians, drama-addicted). When your most important relationships are marginalized, it has truly been a struggle to be seen as other than how society constructs us.
(continued in next comment)
no subject
Date: 2012-03-29 11:58 pm (UTC)The question we should be asking is not whether it is ok to think that someone in a hoodie is scary, but rather, how are we complicit in (e.g. not aware of, perpetuating stereotypes about, not helping to change) the conditions which influenced this particular construction of blackness in our culture?
These days, we consider the charging of a low rate of interest to be a fair business practice, but in the Middle Ages, there was no discussion--it was a sin. My ancestors, having no other way to make a living, were pushed into a black market economy reviled by (but also depended on) by the ruling elites. Can I smugly say that I would not resort to crime if my options and access to self-determination were as limited as that?
Before we condemn Black youth for occupying one of the few positions in society our cultural constructions have allowed based upon our relentlessly reinforced construction of blackness (not only as the criminal, but also as boogy man, sexually indiscriminate carnivore, cautionary tale, secret fantasy of unprincipled indulgence in booty and bling, etc....) we must painfully confront how we contribute to and participate in a culture which privileges enforcement over prevention, black-and-white vilification over complex understanding, blame over responsibility, and comfortable distancing of a thorny problem over uncomfortable confrontations with the mirror.
So, of course an unknown person with their face hidden elicits an initial reaction of fear--we all react. That's totally normal and we should all have compassion for ourselves for having that type of normal reaction. However, we owe it to ourselves and the human race to not stop there. To note our limbic reaction and then re-engage the frontal cortex and remember that there may be many reasons for wearing a hoodie and that even if the reasons are sinister, they exist in a context and that context was created, in large part by the power of dominant culture to construct the meanings we read in such signifiers.
Yes stereotypes come about based on grains of observable evidence, however, we must ask ourselves, how is it that this particular construction of threat came about, and continues to be more emphasized and feared than other threats? (especially when there are statistically much greater actual threats to our health and well-being such as driving on the freeway, the corruption of our environment, or perfectly respectable non-hoodied white men who send young people to Afghanistan to die).
In any capacity in which we have some degree of privilege, we are likely complicit in the context which contributes to and maintains those stereotypes.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-04 03:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-30 12:00 am (UTC)--Ariel de Courteny, An Tir (and IE co-founder)
--Ariel Caspe-Detzer, Seattle
no subject
Date: 2012-03-30 12:34 am (UTC)I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the way you sit back, think, and approach issues. You are one of the most clear-headed thinkers that I believe I've had the pleasure of "virtually" meeting.
I agree to just about everything you said, and really want to highlight one point - "an unknown person with their face hidden elicits an initial reaction of fear--we all react." And I think that is one of the key points. We react. And ya know what? I don't think that in and of itself is a bad thing. Now, HOW re react is.
I recall months ago writing a post of similar ilk. Let's say a woman is walking alone down the street carrying her purse. She sees a big black man walking towards her. Instinct kicks in, and she clutches her purse just a little bit tighter. Is she a racist? Or is she being taking an ounce of caution? When the man sees her do this, should he feel offended? Has HE done anything to her to merit this behavior? If you asked the woman, you will probably hear her say that she has taken safety courses, or that she got mugged once before, or that a friend was hurt, or something - SOMETHING that caused her to react. If you ask the man walking her way if he was offended, he will probably say yes and with good reason. After all, HE didn't do anything wrong. And does the situation suck? Yes. It sucks big time. But we need to recognize that her reaction was not necessarily because she doesn't like African-Americans, but because of something a bit more close-to-home.
On the one hand, I think it is important that we fight the ethnic stereotypes and overt prejudice. But on the other hand, I think we need to recognize what has caused these stereotypes to occur and (hopefully) work on some changes.
no subject
Date: 2012-03-30 02:44 pm (UTC)It sounds like you think the stereotypes occurred because they're somewhat (but not uniformly) true or justified. From that perspective, the way to stop them would be for people inside the stereotype to stop acting like it, and people outside the stereotype to refrain from prejudging a person (because "they're not ALL that way") and notice as fewer of of "them" were "that way" until the stereotype would fade out (the way, maybe, the idea of gays as promiscuous has faded as many sought marriage). Or, any stereotypes that existed would be OK because they would be mostly accurate.
But what if the people inside the stereotype face external limits to their ability to change, pressures to conform and sanctions for stepping outside their recognized role?
Or, what if stereotypes are not predominantly true-- the patterns we think we see are more in the mind of the observer than in the actual occurrences? Humans have lots of cognitive biases that allow us to believe things that are not objectively or statistically true; confirmation bias, attribution errors, just-world hypothesis and status-quo bias are particularly relevant.
If these factors are in play, how can we work against them?
Thank you
Date: 2012-03-30 01:30 pm (UTC)Thank you for doing the good work I am too tired to do.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-04 03:39 pm (UTC)